nanog mailing list archives

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From: nanog--- via NANOG <nanog () lists nanog org>
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2025 01:20:24 +0200

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It's quite common for dictatorships to shut down all internet access in the country whenever the people are angry about something bad the dictator did.

Until now, the world thought that would never happen in a supposedly democratic country.

People are surprised that courts and governments are willing to go as far as shutting down half the internet, in order to solve some sports piracy. When a sportsball league asks a court to shut down half the internet to block piracy, the court is expected to refuse, and the league is expected to seek a different remedy.

Apparently the sportsball leagues in Spain and Italy have strong ties to the actual Mafia, so that might have something to do with it.

The same principle that prevents Spain from selectively blocking a single Cloudflare site also prevents dictators from murdering anyone in the country who edits their Wikipedia page unfavourably, so keep that in mind.

On 14/04/25 23:15, Constantine A. Murenin wrote:

I'm just not sure if this "too big to fail" is a realistic strategy
beyond the "feels good" component.

If you prohibit any way to identify and block specific resources
within a network / website…

Whether with the use of CDNs, and/or with Encrypted Client Hello or
the earlier Encrypted SNI to hide the Server Name Indication, or with
HTTPS for read-only content in general.

How could you possibly then be surprised that they DO block the entire
resource in question, when a legal requirement exists to censor some
specific content within, which can no longer be identified properly
because of CDN with HTTPS with ECH without the plain-text SNI?

For anyone who's an investor in $NET, it might be interesting to know
how exactly does Cloudflare justify using things like ECH and ESNI
that prohibit providers from blocking just the specific sites, and
thus causing the entire network to be blocked each incident.

How is it NOT Cloudflare's fault that their entire network always gets
blocked in these incidents?!

I'd be interested to hear why the other customers accept these things,
too.  If they weren't doing ECH and weren't broadcasting football
through HTTPS, there'd be no need to block their entire network in
these actions.  Yet they're pushing ECH and HTTPS everywhere.

C.

On Mon, 14 Apr 2025 at 15:31, nanog--- via NANOG <nanog () lists nanog org> wrote:

In this case the centralization normally serves to avoid blocking. You
don't turn off the entire Internet to block one site, but Spain has
decided to go nuclear and has decided that actually it's okay to block
the entire internet to block one site.

When Italy did the same thing several months ago, they said it was by
mistake and reversed it (and then to save face, said there had been no
mistake and they had never blocked it at all).


On 14/04/25 18:00, Constantine A. Murenin via NANOG wrote:

Here's an idea, why don't we centralise the entire internet behind a
single network to "solve" the issue of connectivity and availability?
Oh, wait!  Nevermind!  /s

C.

On Mon, 14 Apr 2025 at 10:20, Raúl Martínez via NANOG
<nanog () lists nanog org> wrote:

Hello, Nanog,

This is an ongoing issue that might affect your spanish users if you use
services like Cloudflare, Vercel, BunnyCDN or GitHub pages.

A couple of weeks ago, the most important ISPs in Spain started
intercepting or nullrouting IP addresses from this CDN providers.

The reason is that a couple of local court orders allowed LA LIGA (sports
association responsible for administering the two professional football
leagues in Spain) to provide ISPs with a list of IP addresses that host
soccer piracy sites to be taken down in a short period of time, even when
the football match is taken place.

The issue is that most of this piracy sites use Cloudflare and others to
protect themselves, so ISPs are nullrouting or intercepting IP ranges that
serve thousands of websites, including all Cloudflare Free customers (but
not limited to). For example, they blocked one IP address that served
ChatGPT.

These blockages are applied when the soccer matches are played and they are
turned off hours later.

Cloudflare has already taken legal action against this, but the issue is
still ongoing.

You can find more information about this issue on TorrentFreak (LaLiga
Blocks Cloudflare Again, New Pirate IPTV Providers & Anything in The Way),
BandaanchaEU (bandaancha bloqueos del fútbol).

*Regards,*
*Raúl Martínez*
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Current thread:

• [NANOG] ISPs in Spain are blocking CDN IP ranges to tackle soccer piracy Raúl Martínez via NANOG (Apr 14)
  • [NANOG] Re: ISPs in Spain are blocking CDN IP ranges to tackle soccer piracy Mel Beckman via NANOG (Apr 14)
  • [NANOG] Re: ISPs in Spain are blocking CDN IP ranges to tackle soccer piracy Constantine A. Murenin via NANOG (Apr 14)
    • [NANOG] Re: ISPs in Spain are blocking CDN IP ranges to tackle soccer piracy Bryan Holloway via NANOG (Apr 14)
    • [NANOG] Re: ISPs in Spain are blocking CDN IP ranges to tackle soccer piracy nanog--- via NANOG (Apr 14)
      • [NANOG] Re: ISPs in Spain are blocking CDN IP ranges to tackle soccer piracy Constantine A. Murenin via NANOG (Apr 14)
      • [NANOG] Re: ISPs in Spain are blocking CDN IP ranges to tackle soccer piracy Tim Burke via NANOG (Apr 14)
      • [NANOG] Re: ISPs in Spain are blocking CDN IP ranges to tackle soccer piracy Constantine A. Murenin via NANOG (Apr 14)
      • [NANOG] Re: ISPs in Spain are blocking CDN IP ranges to tackle soccer piracy Gary Sparkes via NANOG (Apr 14)
  • [NANOG] Re: ISPs in Spain are blocking CDN IP ranges to tackle soccer piracy nanog--- via NANOG (Apr 14)
  • [NANOG] Re: ISPs in Spain are blocking CDN IP ranges to tackle soccer piracy Constantine A. Murenin via NANOG (Apr 14)
  • [NANOG] Re: ISPs in Spain are blocking CDN IP ranges to tackle soccer piracy Gary Sparkes via NANOG (Apr 14)
• [NANOG] Re: ISPs in Spain are blocking CDN IP ranges to tackle soccer piracy Marco Belmonte via NANOG (Apr 14)

[NANOG] Re: ISPs in Spain are blocking CDN IP ranges to tackle soccer piracy Elmar K. Bins via NANOG (Apr 14)

[NANOG] Re: ISPs in Spain are blocking CDN IP ranges to tackle soccer piracy Brian Turnbow via NANOG (Apr 15)